Curse

Carinae · Nov 01, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Take a good MM.

While I agree that there are some aggro 'glitches' still happening, I run MM and haven't taken any aggro since the patch. They ALWAYS used to break for me because I run with two superior runes @380hp. But I haven't been touched in Elona!

logik · Nov 01, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

there ar eonly 2 things i have an issue with, which i think are beyond stupid:
1. Enemies run away for minutes while you chase them
2. Henchies canceling their own skills ALL THE TIME--this is one is just dumb, who coded that anyway...

Sli Ander · Nov 02, 2006, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Now let me say two things before I get into this:
I don't play much pvp
I haven't played Nightfall.

I know there have been a lot of glitches since the update, I've run into some such as the "I've run past the mobs,but I'm still taking damage. *stops to heal and finds himself back in the middle of a mob"

But I have seen no problems whatsoever concerning ridiculous A.I. such as the ones you describe. I've been doing a bit of time in the game since the update, and have actually never had an easier time. It's allowed me to hench areas I couldn't before, to maps areas I couldn't get to for my title.

So a monk runs when you target it. Call a different target for the henchies. Every time that monk comes back, hit it yourself so it runs. The more it runs, the less it heals, the quicker the monsters die. If it doesn't run when you hit it, call it to the henchies so they kill it.

If you like to use AoE, well so what if they scatter. Take advantage of the panic and kill whatever one didn't run, or is closest to you. By the time the rest come back they've lost a couple teammates.

Why is everyone complaining that the enemies go after their back line of henchies? Thats what you are attempting to do to the enemy, so you should have seen it coming.While they take out your back line, take out theres, or use it as an opportunity to trap their tanks while scaring away their monks.

This game has always emphasized skill and strategy. This update has reemphasized that. Remember the '10% rule': you must be 10% smarter than your equipment to use it. In this case, that can mean the enemy or your henchies. I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just saying this: sit back, think a minute, and try to figure out why the enemy killed you. Now try and get around it next time. If you're having major bugs, report them and wait a bit till they disappear. Then try again. Hope it goes well, and yes, please try to adapt to the gameplay.

But that's just my two cents

trialist · Nov 02, 2006, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Like many others have already said, if the ai monk is running away from you, just switch targets, his running away is only a problem if you are stuck with the mentality of "Get the monk first! Above and beyond everything else!". If you are chasing that ai monk through 3 or more mobs, who's more intelligent here? I vote the ai monk.

As for the ai going for your backline, bring a custom prot monk hero and a ward of melee ele hero (you can pack blinds too if you want) and just sit there picking your nose, my heroes/henchies could take on almost any mob without me even participating, heh, easy mode for the win.

Jimyd · Nov 02, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Maybe now random pugs will appreciate a Hydro Elementalist instead of the typical metorer nuker.

Kais Unduli · Nov 02, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

I'm not having any problems really. I've found a wall of bone fiends and minions usually holds up the enemies that break off to attack my casters. Level 20 Olias ftw.

coldplay · Nov 02, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

well, I dont like mobs in mmorpg running away from me.

Sagius Truthbarron · Nov 02, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

And that's the whole problem. I didn't buy GW Nightfall to play PvP

I didn't buy armor pieces with 80 armor to not get attacked anyway
And I don't take casters in my team just for them to die.

So this is what an 'intelligent monster' thinks: attack low armor/if attacked run away until not being chased. Wow if that's what PvP is all about as well, I'm sure I'm not missing anything.

The point of PvEing isn't to fight something that's dumber than you are. That's a truely pathetic way of thinking.

I didn't buy a 20/20 sundering bow string to not get its effect 80% of the time, that doesn't mean I'd be better off without it, or that its rather inexpensive purchase wasn't worth it.

Still, I don't see how the AI doing things you would do makes it "PvP". PvP vs PvE isn't a matter of intelligence, its a matter of setting.

Have someone in your party bring something to slow the enemy down.

unknown entity · Nov 02, 2006, 05:25 AM // 05:25

There're various factors invloving this problem/modification.

Onoing thread on GWO: http://forums.gwonline.net/showthread.php?t=428035

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

Heya,

Just a few updates that include: One fix, one fix-to-come, and a bit about the future.

On release of Nightfall, there was a bug that confused the monsters' prioritization of targets. That bug was repaired on October 31st. It's working the way it should, rather than the way it did from release through the 31st.

Another bug mentioned here is the "cast, cancel, cast" syndrome, and that has been researched, identified and will be repaired in a live build that will likely be rolled out tonight, November 1st.

A few of the other observations are of issues that we would like to address in the future and we hope to do so as time allows.

Thanks for a concise and helpful report!

and

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

Gee, it's a shame the Oscars were a few months ago. I'm seeing noteworthy dramatic performances there.

Did I not say that there was a fix, will be a fix, and that we'll be looking at other corrections in the future, as well? I don't think anyone said it's working as it should, and certainly input presented with details and logical commentary is more than welcome! For example, Spamhugger's comments are of value, and I think that someone on the design or programming team will want to look at the fact that non-speed-enhanced mobs are (or at least seem to be) moving at increased speed. HorrorScope's suggestion is also interesting: I believe that the requested skill prioritization is already inherent in the "guard, passive, aggressive" Hero toggle, for naturally an aggressive Warrior/Monk will be more likely to attack than a passive one. Still, interesting idea, and thanks.

Avarre · Nov 02, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

I can't add to this discussion at all, really... because I haven't noticed any of this. I flag all my heroes forwards, they're already in AL formation. The warriors hit their casters, their warriors hit mine, mine kite away. Their warriors pull back towards the middle, and my casters have stopped pulling back and fire AoE into the cluster while my melee's are ripping them apart.

I've been using flail on Koss (awesome stance, in my opinion) and have never had a problem with things kiting, at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trialist

Like many others have already said, if the ai monk is running away from you, just switch targets, his running away is only a problem if you are stuck with the mentality of "Get the monk first! Above and beyond everything else!".

Exactly. I (mesmer) target enemy monks towards the middle of the fight, after damage is being dealt to their front and midliners. That's when they have to heal more (backfire!) and not when they're ready to dance around.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 02, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

I personally like the AI update it makes PvE more challeging.

However I don't think all monsters should have this. I personally think monsters in newbie land should run in like kamakaxis then as we get into uber 1337 town we should face intelligent monsters,

Oh a GW forum · Nov 02, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

yup anet killed a good game by over nerfing, there is nothing 'intelligent' , 'harder to play' or 'better ai' about monsters that run halfway across a map, its just bloody frustrating and boring to spend half your time chasing and no snares arent always an option and why the hell should you have to snare every enemy just to be able to attack them.

no doubt we'll have the sheep who think everything anet do is great reply in defense but they have cocked the game up totally, its just not fun anymore, its a chore to play.

or the pvp morons who never play pve will comment about how its good because its more like the elitist side of the game

I agree with you whole-heartedly, especially about the sheep comment. It never fails to piss me off when people think if they instantly side with anet, it somehow makes them better than the people who complain about an update. Just an extension of the whole elitist, rank flashing, immature and idiodic attitude that surrounds pvp and is the #1 reason I don't pvp at all.

I really don't know what to make of all this. I'm regreting having bought nightfall, because I'm really not sure I want to play this game much longer. The new AI has nothing to do with being "challenging" or something to "liven things up". If I needed a challenge or something new I could try a 5 man Deep, or try to solo Sorrow's Furnace, or I could experiment with a 3 man tombs build... this AI feature is nothing more than the devolopers pushing the game in the direction they best see fit, with no regard for how the players will feel about it.

I'll stick around and see what happens, but I don't plan on spending any more money on the game.

Phoenix Ex · Nov 02, 2006, 05:45 AM // 05:45

Ok maybe its just me...but these are my reasons for PvE:

1. Exploring and look at scenaries
2. Chat with friends/guildies/alliance member
3. Relax

Call me skill-less or stupid and what not, but when the reason I play PvE is to NOT kill brain cells trying to strategize, I think I thinked enough already in school and work. I don't want a PvP style PvE where I have to constantly call target and kite like mad and to control the headless henchmen.

There is a reason why bosses on PvE do like 400dmg in one shot or has extreme health/armor. THOSE are the challenge that PvE has, dealing with bad spawn, finding ways around mazy map, trying to find bonuses, figuring out seemingly impossible mission and ways to get around that.

Ya, of course I will get serious when I really want to, that's when I press the "guild hall" button in my guild menu. But when I am not PvPing, I want to be "stupid" and "skill-less" and whatever those ppl call me when I am relaxing in a game. (hey, sometimes I play drunk

)

Seriously, RPG used to be, and is supposed to be about exploring, questing, ROLEPLAYING. Its sad seeing it degenerate into just killing, looting, finishing mission till end of game, then complain about how the AI is too easy, and how people are skillless or skillful because they beat/can't beat certain AI.....If I want those I go to RTS like starcraft.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 02, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by led-zep

yup anet killed a good game by over nerfing, there is nothing 'intelligent' , 'harder to play' or 'better ai' about monsters that run halfway across a map, its just bloody frustrating and boring to spend half your time chasing and no snares arent always an option and why the hell should you have to snare every enemy just to be able to attack them.

no doubt we'll have the sheep who think everything anet do is great reply in defense but they have cocked the game up totally, its just not fun anymore, its a chore to play.

or the pvp morons who never play pve will comment about how its good because its more like the elitist side of the game

Nice post. First you act like a drama queen and throw a tantrum then you insult PVP players and everyone who thought the A.I. update was good.

arcanemacabre · Nov 02, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Personally, I've learned some interesting tactics with my Paragon. I found that if you start off focus-firing on the enemy monk by targetting, they will run (as I would in that situation, get the hell outta there). However, if I target a different mob, like a warrior or ranger mob, then I personally go after the monk, they will stick around and get bombarded.

It's not that hard, really. Honestly, it's not even 'harder' than before, just different. All you have to do is pay attention a little more. You see an enemy run, don't chase them, period. Just change your target to something closer. Once the rest of the runner's team is dead, they don't run anymore.

Sli Ander · Nov 02, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Just so people know, I'm a very casual player. I've got about 500 hours across all characters in past ten months. The only character I play regularly is my monk. This is what I mean by 'sit back and think':

I tried with random pugs to get through Nahpui. I failed several times. I saw what didn't work. I then didn't play for about a week. I looked at Guild Wiki again to reference the mission. Since I then could realize what was a bad idea to do, I went back to Nahpui, somehow managed to find a half decent pug(i.e. they learned from mistakes) and beat the mission. I'm not saying overload your brain, overanalyze tactics or anything( though I grew up on strategy games).

I'm saying to learn from mistakes. If some tactic doesn't work anymore, file it for possible use in the future, and move on. Make more mistakes, and learn from them.

But that's just my two cents

garethporlest18 · Nov 02, 2006, 06:06 AM // 06:06

Well the problem I had with this, is I go out to Gate of Secrets. There are 6-7 enemies per group. All of them went for Dunkoro, and he could barely keep himself healed and I have 2 other monks helping him. With PS and other damage reduction, he still died. There is no way, in hell, I can stop him from dying from that. It builds up and then everyone starts to die because the monk is so DPed out. Now I haven't tried out my fire ele to stop Dunkoro from getting raped so furiously, so I'm going to be doing that. It's an okay update and a not okay update in various ways.

The only problem I have with this update, is the hero's inability to heal themselves efficently and using the right skills. I cannot control them and control myself at the same time, it's almost impossible for me. Since I cannot do this, I get the shaft? We should have options for certain abilities like hex and condition removals that tells them when and when not to use it or something like that.

I don't want to use a PUG group for every single aspect of the game that's not fun for me. Sometimes other people ruin things because they have the ability to think and have opinions. Now if some of you guys could be stupid AI I'd like partying with you a lot more

.

0mar · Nov 02, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

I think the real problem is that people haven't had the need to try. Before, you could bring the worst skills possible in an instance and still roll all the groups like they weren't even there. Now, you actually need to outfit every character to have a real role and have people know what they are doing. Chasing after a running monster is asinine. Snare it somehow and then do your damage. AoE skills actually need some tactics and strategy to be effective. See the monsters in a bad position? Body block them/snare them and then slap down your favorite AoE spell. Bring Aegis/Wards/Warrior-hate too to help the survivability of your party. The game has now progressed to where you can't just grab a tank, two echo nukers, two monks and just roll the groups.

I haven't had a single problem yet in Nightfall regarding the monster AI. I've pretty much hero-way'ed my way through it so far (just me + friend). It's a matter of getting good builds, good tactics and energy management.

Sid Soggybottom · Nov 02, 2006, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Yeah, I dont understand why people are finding it so difficult to cope. If I can barrel through the game with only heroes/henchies with the exception of 3 missions where I used PUGS, then I dont see why so many of you can't just get over this.

And if you don't find the new A.I. fun, then I dont know what to tell you. I guess you only find pushover mindless gameplay to be fun.

Marth Reynolds · Nov 02, 2006, 07:01 AM // 07:01

ATM these rnemies are just insane, they target most of the time 1 group member and spike him to death, and they'll go to the next target.

But seriously this needs to change, i'l give you a example of how stupid heros have gotten:

i was trying to cap energy prism [ele elite] during a certain point in the battle there were henchman left vs 1 Awakened Grey giant and that ele boss who only used after shock, stoning andglowstone for dmg,
The 2 monks started ressing the 2 dead partymembers and in that time the boss killed them, And after that the rest of the team.

I mean if 6 henchman now can't even kill a ele boss +1 grey giant how doomed are we?